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Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?


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Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?
11-20-2010, 01:57 PM
Post: #16
RE: Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?
Hmm...

I've been random browsing some hacker kinect sites. It seems like the IR resolution might be higher than 320x240. It might be even higher, if the framerate is slowed down. When it comes to motion capture, it doesn't have to be a solid 30 fps. Your body doesn't move as fast as your eyes processes information.

Also, there is an interview with a MS manager who explicitly states that Kinect was left open by design. They knew hackers would figure out how to test it, use it and exploit it. The Xbox (and Live) are closed systems, but they are perfectly fine and happy with hackers screwing around with the Kinect hardware on other systems. In fact, the MS manager sounded like she's really excited about the prospect of seeing what people do with their hardware. Interesting.
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11-21-2010, 01:33 AM (This post was last modified: 11-21-2010 01:37 AM by Corellianrogue.)
Post: #17
RE: Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?
(11-20-2010 01:57 PM)fervor Wrote:  Hmm...

I've been random browsing some hacker kinect sites. It seems like the IR resolution might be higher than 320x240. It might be even higher, if the framerate is slowed down. When it comes to motion capture, it doesn't have to be a solid 30 fps. Your body doesn't move as fast as your eyes processes information.

Also, there is an interview with a MS manager who explicitly states that Kinect was left open by design. They knew hackers would figure out how to test it, use it and exploit it. The Xbox (and Live) are closed systems, but they are perfectly fine and happy with hackers screwing around with the Kinect hardware on other systems. In fact, the MS manager sounded like she's really excited about the prospect of seeing what people do with their hardware. Interesting.

It's cool if the IR has got a higher resolution but I think for most games 30fps tracking is needed really. One thing the Sony fans like to boast over Kinect is that the PSEye/Move can go up to 120fps (but only at 320x240, it's up to 60fps at 640x480, that's the camera not the games' resolution, lol!) and that could be one of the reasons why the Move is a bit more precise, although after reading the article about joypad lag I'm wondering if it can only go up to 120fps if the game itself is running at 120fps and as far as I know there aren't any console games that run anywhere near 120fps! Edit: I just realised, most people's TVs can't handle more than 60fps so I don't there can be a console game that runs faster than that.
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11-21-2010, 08:32 AM
Post: #18
RE: Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?
Faster than 30 frames per second? For motion tracking? I don't see why that would be necessary. 30 frames per second is ridiculously fast. Think about how far you can move in 0.033 seconds. Heck....it takes 0.3 to 0.4 seconds just to blink. Why do you need a motion tracking system that updates 10 times in the space of time required for your eye to blink once?

120fps for motion tracking? That seems like total overkill.

Hmm...I have to think about this for a while.
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11-24-2010, 09:51 AM
Post: #19
RE: Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?
in the hacks you see on the PC side of things for the kinect, one of the developers was able to resolve fingers in the raw data. so apparently, fingers can been seen and detected. so apparently, it's the MS skeletal software that can't see fingers. the raw data by the IR sensor can resolve fingers. so many in a future software update for the 360 side of things, we'll have fingers.
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11-26-2010, 02:14 AM
Post: #20
RE: Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?
(11-24-2010 09:51 AM)dirtyvu Wrote:  in the hacks you see on the PC side of things for the kinect, one of the developers was able to resolve fingers in the raw data. so apparently, fingers can been seen and detected. so apparently, it's the MS skeletal software that can't see fingers. the raw data by the IR sensor can resolve fingers. so many in a future software update for the 360 side of things, we'll have fingers.

I think you need to be closer than 6-8 feet for the sensor to resolve fingers, though. In all the hacking videos, the hands are always much closer to the sensor.

It'd be a tradeoff. Can see fingers, but can't see the whole body.
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11-26-2010, 05:00 PM
Post: #21
RE: Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?
I know Dance Central is developed by Harmonix but is it published by Ubisoft by any chance? Because that skeleton I posted is Microsoft's default skeletal system but other companies are free to create their own (although obviously it takes a lot of time and effort) and that's what Ubisoft did and they even claim it's better than Microsoft's! Also if a company is developing a 1 player game then theoretically they could make a more complex skeletal system (and probably tracking system in general) as they'll have at least twice as many "bones" and points to work with.
[/quote]

were can you see you're skeleton? i dont see it at my kinect?
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11-27-2010, 04:15 PM
Post: #22
RE: Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?
(11-26-2010 05:00 PM)sande Wrote:  
(11-20-2010 12:55 AM)Corellianrogue Wrote:  I know Dance Central is developed by Harmonix but is it published by Ubisoft by any chance? Because that skeleton I posted is Microsoft's default skeletal system but other companies are free to create their own (although obviously it takes a lot of time and effort) and that's what Ubisoft did and they even claim it's better than Microsoft's! Also if a company is developing a 1 player game then theoretically they could make a more complex skeletal system (and probably tracking system in general) as they'll have at least twice as many "bones" and points to work with.

were can you see you're skeleton? i dont see it at my kinect?

I think the feature that let you see it must have only been on demo Kinects as I couldn't find it on mine either. There is a more basic skeleton you see briefly while calibrating though. (If I remember rightly it's during the "tracking" part of the calibration.)
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11-27-2010, 06:19 PM
Post: #23
RE: Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?
Wouldn't this prove that Kinect can detect finger movements?

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11-28-2010, 06:14 AM
Post: #24
RE: Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?
(11-27-2010 06:19 PM)Nick Wrote:  Wouldn't this prove that Kinect can detect finger movements?

Not completely.

That video shows that it can skeletonize the arm, wrist, thumb and hand if it's fairly close to the sensor. We only see it recognizing and skeletonizing the side of the hand, basically lumping all the fingers together. What it is doing in that video is actually more simple than what Kinect does in real games where it's skeletonizing the whole body.

I don't think I've seen a video yet that can skeletonize every finger and track the movements. If it can do that, it can do stuff like read sign language. I'm not sure it has the necessary resolution...unless the hand is really close to the sensor? Maybe...

(Is skeletonize a real word? haha. I think you get my meaning, though.)
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11-28-2010, 06:32 PM
Post: #25
RE: Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?
Short answer: Yes!


Enjoy Big Grin

http://www.twitter.com/IckyGalaxy
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11-28-2010, 06:42 PM
Post: #26
RE: Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?
Thanks for posting that Icky! Looks like finger detection is doable and probably at a short distance from the sensor. How awesome would it be to have video conferencing via Kinect with someone on one side performing sign language! Perhaps someone could make software that puts text of each sign or a computer automated voice that talks it out in real time.
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11-28-2010, 07:40 PM
Post: #27
RE: Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?
Cool, thanks!

There are so many sweet proof of concept videos popping up every day now. I can't wait to see some of these turn into reality.

MSFT is probably drooling with excitement (and greed) with every video, heh.
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11-30-2010, 06:16 AM
Post: #28
RE: Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?
(11-28-2010 06:14 AM)fervor Wrote:  
(11-27-2010 06:19 PM)Nick Wrote:  Wouldn't this prove that Kinect can detect finger movements?

Not completely.

That video shows that it can skeletonize the arm, wrist, thumb and hand if it's fairly close to the sensor. We only see it recognizing and skeletonizing the side of the hand, basically lumping all the fingers together.

the hand puppet demo does demonstrate the ability to resolve fingers. she opens the mouth of the bird by splitting her thumb away from the other fingers.
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12-02-2010, 08:26 PM
Post: #29
RE: Can Kinect detect hand or finger movements?
i saw these demos:


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