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VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!


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VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
04-28-2011, 09:00 PM (This post was last modified: 04-28-2011 09:36 PM by Corellianrogue.)
Post: #46
Exclamation RE: VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
I've got it! Big Grin I can't really do a proper review though as my space is still cluttered and also you can't really see if everything is working properly like Michael Jackson: The Experience because that game used Player Projection so obviously you can clearly see if Kinect is messing up due other objects in the play-space and any other problems. It definitely seems good (I had fun playing at least, even though it wiped me out, lol!) but I will mention some problems I've found so far and most seem to be because of Move not Kinect!

There's the obvious problem of not being able to freely move around the court like you obviously normally can with a joypad/joystick, instead the game automatically moves you to the general area that the ball has been hit too. Although I don't know if it's my imagination but it seemed like I could move around a bit within that area. (Although I currently don't have much room to move around at all so I can't tell for sure.) Also you can run to the net manually by supposedly stepping forward but when I was playing it I had to go right up to the TV/Kinect to get it to work and it didn't always work properly. This probably has to do with my lack of space and clutter though rather than a problem with the game or Kinect. (At least I hope that's the case!) Also it seems like you can stop moving forward whenever want rather than the game just automatically moving you forward all the way to the net if you step forward. (It's hard to tell with my limited play time, it could just be that the game just happened to automatically stop me moving forward so that I could hit the ball coincidentally with me stepping back so I could hit the ball.) Apart from the moving around the court thing more reasons Move may have gimped the game a bit (remember that this was made on the PS3 for the Move and PORTED to the Xbox 360/Kinect) include the fact that when serving instead of throwing the ball up with one hand then serving with the other you have to hold up the hand holding the racquet to make your player throw the ball up. (Then you just hit it obviously.) This is obviously because not all Move owners own 2 wands so they can't all use their other hand to throw the ball up. (Although having said that couldn't Sega have just programmed the PS3 game to detect if players have 2 Move wands? Then they could have had the same with Kinect but with a second hand rather than wand obviously. But why didn't they do that with the Kinect version anyway? Huh) Another "Move" problem is the way to control the basic left or right direction of the ball. Move fans go on about how the Move can track the rotation and angle of the racquet and all that but from what I've heard recently that's purely graphical in the PS3's Virtua Tennis 4 and doesn't actually effect the ball, HOWEVER what Move CAN'T do (at least not as much as Kinect and not reliably or proper 3D tracking obviously) is track the position of your body including the angle. Now think about playing real tennis, in order to get the left/right position accurately you have to turn your body in order to hit the ball the right way. Since Move can't do that Sega have instead implemented a system when you "wind up" and swing earlier to hit more to the left and swing later to hit it more to the right. (And the reverse for backhand.) Now you would have thought that for Kinect Sega would scrap that control and simply use body tracking to track the position properly but unfortunately it seems that they haven't and have just simply ported the Move controls so you have to use the dumbed down control system instead. Sad

The only definite Kinect "problem" is that sometimes the racquet is (graphically) a bit glitchy, although that could just be because of my cluttered play-space. (There was glitching in a recent preview video though so it could be that they hadn't managed to iron out all of the glitching in the finished version.) Buy it's not really a big deal as it seemed to be only graphical and I never felt like it was affecting the gameplay when it happened. 2 other general problems are that you can only play exhibition matches and multiplayer in Motion Mode, you have to play with the joypad to play career mode and stuff. No doubt Sega will argue many people would get worn out playing career mode with Kinect, but surely all you have to do is save after each match, quit and go back to it another time if you get tired? The 2nd problem is that for some reason you have to use the joypad on the start screen and menu until you get to the part where you select Motion Mode, then when you select Motion Mode it switches to Kinect control for the options. (But only the options within the Motion Mode section.)

So basically Virtua Tennis 4 (using Kinect) is fun so far and hopefully will turn out to be a great game when I can play it all properly (I've literally only played 2 matches of 3 games per match, you can choose the number of games per match and all that stuff in the options) but it doesn't use Kinect's full capabilities so there's definitely room for improvement for a sequel or tennis games by other companies. (I've only tried Motion Mode so far but I'm sure the regular joypad-controlled mode is at least as good as Virtua Tennis 3 so it should be an amazing game regardless of whether I find any Kinect problems later.) Oh yeah, before I forget, the graphics are great! Maybe not quite up there with Fight Night Champion (from what I've seen at least, I haven't got that yet) but then Virtua Tennis is an arcade series so the graphics fit in with the rest of the series. (But are even better! And the players are easily recognisable.)

Edit: I completely forgot to mention a big positive (although I guess it's sort of a negative to me because of my health, lol!) which is that you really have to give the ball a good wack and can't get away with half-hearted flailing, lol! So it's like Kinect Sports' table tennis, or more accurately just tennis in real life! There were so many times when the ball hit the net (or even the ground before the net) because I was (in real life) worn out and couldn't hit the ball properly. So if you get this game don't think you can get away with limp-wristed slapping, lol!

Edit 2: I've just looked at the instructions again and it says that you can use either hand to toss the ball when serving. When I played it I kept trying to toss the ball with my left hand but I couldn't get it to work and it only tossed the ball when I lifted my right hand (the hand with the racquet as I'm right-handed) so I assumed you couldn't toss it with the other hand. I don't know why it wasn't working. Undecided

Edit 3: On further reading of the instructions I've found that "Party" mode isn't the multiplayer mode as I first thought (well, it is multiplayer too) it's the mini-games mode! So you can play the mini-games with Kinect too which is cool and the instructions say it's even got an extra mini-game especially for Kinect. Big Grin (And you can also play regular multi-player with Kinect too.)
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04-28-2011, 10:03 PM (This post was last modified: 04-28-2011 10:06 PM by dirtyvu.)
Post: #47
RE: VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
it's already out??? why do the Euros get it first? Smile

I actually play real tennis so I'm especially looking forward to trying out the game mechanics. I know no tennis game can't do real tennis mechanics because tennis is too hard for most people (it can take months for people to learn how to just keep the ball on the court without it flying over the fence). People would throw a fit if they couldn't keep the ball on the court. Games are for role playing anyway. People want to feel like they're Roger Federer. If they could actually swing like Roger Federer, they'd be on a real tennis court making millions of dollars.

I saw the preview videos for the Move and the motion is completely wrong. People are swinging way too late (because of the speed of the ball, you should already be starting your swing when the ball is a good 6 feet in front of you so that by the time the racket hits flush, the racket is by your side). I'm sure gamers will think that the Move motion is "real" but it's not (they're always touting this "1 to 1 realism" thing which is the most bogus claim). The guys in the promo videos were playing like it's ping pong or racquetball.

The question I have for you is: if you're left-handed, what happens when you select a right handed player? I'm a lefty and don't want to be restricted to playing Nadal.

looking forward to your actual review! I'm sure when you have more time, you can write a comprehensive review that is concise. Since you didn't have much time yet with the game to write so much, you tended to ramble and jump around just a bit. Big Grin
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04-28-2011, 10:58 PM
Post: #48
Information RE: VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
Yeah, it's out now here in the UK. Well, actually it's out tomorrow but mine came today. Smile (Although bizarrely Carnival Games hasn't arrived yet despite ordering it from the same place, Zavvi, as part of their Easter deal. I also used a voucher that gave me 15% off if I bought 2 games so I managed to get both Virtua Tennis 4 and Carnival Games for £47.34 in total! Big Grin)

The swinging late in the Move videos could be just because of the game because you have to swing later to hit the ball right. (As in the direction "right", and swing earlier to hit the ball left.) I'm not sure about the left-handed/right-handed thing, I think maybe it lets you use which hand you want and selects it just by detecting what hand you're using to choose the options. I used to play tennis too (I joined a proper club although I was never as good as I wish I was, lol!) and it does feel very "tennis-y" playing it except for the gimped left/right controls I mentioned. (Although having said that I'm sure sometimes I was able to hit the ball in the right direction just using my body position like it should be.) I'm sure someone else will review it first as I really need to sort out the room before I can play it properly, or at least be able to judge it properly since if I do find other problems before I've sorted out the room it could just be space issues and clutter affecting Kinect rather than a problem with Kinect/the game itself. Plus I need to rest a lot because of M.E. and the game really wipes me out.

(04-28-2011 10:03 PM)dirtyvu Wrote:  it's already out??? why do the Euros get it first? Smile

I actually play real tennis so I'm especially looking forward to trying out the game mechanics. I know no tennis game can't do real tennis mechanics because tennis is too hard for most people (it can take months for people to learn how to just keep the ball on the court without it flying over the fence). People would throw a fit if they couldn't keep the ball on the court. Games are for role playing anyway. People want to feel like they're Roger Federer. If they could actually swing like Roger Federer, they'd be on a real tennis court making millions of dollars.

I saw the preview videos for the Move and the motion is completely wrong. People are swinging way too late (because of the speed of the ball, you should already be starting your swing when the ball is a good 6 feet in front of you so that by the time the racket hits flush, the racket is by your side). I'm sure gamers will think that the Move motion is "real" but it's not (they're always touting this "1 to 1 realism" thing which is the most bogus claim). The guys in the promo videos were playing like it's ping pong or racquetball.

The question I have for you is: if you're left-handed, what happens when you select a right handed player? I'm a lefty and don't want to be restricted to playing Nadal.

looking forward to your actual review! I'm sure when you have more time, you can write a comprehensive review that is concise. Since you didn't have much time yet with the game to write so much, you tended to ramble and jump around just a bit. Big Grin
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04-29-2011, 03:41 AM
Post: #49
RE: VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
Thanks Corellianrogue for this pre-review!

I started to play real tennis last year and I was looking forward to play this game. When I first read your impressions, I was disappointed. But your last comments gave me hope...Anyway I have to wait until May 10 before I can get it, so you have some time to make a preview Tongue

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04-29-2011, 07:36 PM (This post was last modified: 04-29-2011 07:40 PM by dirtyvu.)
Post: #50
RE: VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
I just read the Eurogamer review and it's quite clear the reviewer is a gamer who doesn't play tennis. He harps on lack of wrist action but tennis has little wrist action.

Gamers have some weird notion that all racket sports have the same mechanics (table tennis, tennis, racquetball, etc.). they do not. In tennis, there is very little wrist action except for the serve and maybe the slice. Top spin and other groundstrokes come more from your legs and torso for power and your arm motion and grip for type of stroke. A strong western grip for heavy topspin. A more continental grip for flatter shots. For example, if you finish with your stroke so that your arm is point straight forward, it'll be a straight flat shot.

In fact, if you go into a tennis class and play with a loose wrist, they'll laugh at you. And yet gamers somehow talk about how important it is to have wrist action. I guess it's because gamers grew up playing Wii tennis games and watching tennis on TV rather than playing on the court.

In Wii Tennis, you basically have to cheat to win and flicking your wrists as fast as possible. This isn't tennis. You don't flick your wrist in tennis. This is how the term waggle was invented. You don't do correct motions in Wii games if you want to win. You figure out the game mechanics and take advantage of the limitations of the controls.
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04-29-2011, 08:46 PM (This post was last modified: 04-29-2011 08:48 PM by Corellianrogue.)
Post: #51
Information RE: VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
(04-29-2011 07:36 PM)dirtyvu Wrote:  I just read the Eurogamer review and it's quite clear the reviewer is a gamer who doesn't play tennis. He harps on lack of wrist action but tennis has little wrist action.

Gamers have some weird notion that all racket sports have the same mechanics (table tennis, tennis, racquetball, etc.). they do not. In tennis, there is very little wrist action except for the serve and maybe the slice. Top spin and other groundstrokes come more from your legs and torso for power and your arm motion and grip for type of stroke. A strong western grip for heavy topspin. A more continental grip for flatter shots. For example, if you finish with your stroke so that your arm is point straight forward, it'll be a straight flat shot.

In fact, if you go into a tennis class and play with a loose wrist, they'll laugh at you. And yet gamers somehow talk about how important it is to have wrist action. I guess it's because gamers grew up playing Wii tennis games and watching tennis on TV rather than playing on the court.

In Wii Tennis, you basically have to cheat to win and flicking your wrists as fast as possible. This isn't tennis. You don't flick your wrist in tennis. This is how the term waggle was invented. You don't do correct motions in Wii games if you want to win. You figure out the game mechanics and take advantage of the limitations of the controls.

Yeah, try playing real life tennis without ever turning your body at all and just face straight on all the time, you can move you wrist as much as you want but you're not going to be able to put the ball where you want! That's unfortunately how Virtua Tennis 4 (in Motion Play mode) is as the only way to effect the left & right direction is using timing like it says in the instructions, which is ridiculous. I must have just had some coincidental shots during the occasions I thought my body position was affecting the left/right direction of the ball as I tested it out more and it definitely seems like the instruction manual is right. (Which makes sense as they are the instructions afterall, lol!) Also I got tossing the ball with my left hand to work, I think it wasn't working before due to the tilt of my Kinect because for some reason my Kinect was tilting down much too far. (I think it might have been because of me sitting down the other day while MJE was still running so Kinect tilted down to track me sitting down then I turned off the Xbox and it stayed tilting down.) But there's a MAJOR problem with serving, it's automatic! Dodgy You can throw the ball then stay completely still with your arms down by your side and your player still serves prefectly, lol! I don't know whether you can affect the serve further, like speed and position, if you "act out" the serve yourself as well during serving but it didn't look like it. Also I can't seem to pull off lobs for some reason. Undecided (At least not intentionally.)

It's such a shame Sega just did a quick port of the PS3/Move version rather than take full advantage (or even just the basic advantage of body position) of Kinect as VT4's Motion Play mode would have been so much better if they did. Sad (I've actually seen comments from PS3 owners complaining that VT4 on the PS3 was dumbed down because of Kinect. WRONG! The game was virtually finished when the Xbox 360/Kinect version was announced so at worst the PS3 version might have been delayed because of that but as far as I know no videogame journalists have claimed that the finished version of of the PS3 version of VT4 is any different to early versions they played last year, long before it went multiplatform, other than it being more polished now.) In fact I've heard that you can just play the Move version sitting down flicking the controller, like you said about Wii tennis. But like I've said before, I guess we should be happy that we got the game at all since it was originally announced as a PS3 exclusive, plus even if the Motion Play mode ends up too disappointing it's still a great joypad game from what I've heard. (I haven't got around to playing with a joypad yet as I've been too exhausted!)
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04-29-2011, 11:35 PM
Post: #52
RE: VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
(04-29-2011 08:46 PM)Corellianrogue Wrote:  
(04-29-2011 07:36 PM)dirtyvu Wrote:  I just read the Eurogamer review and it's quite clear the reviewer is a gamer who doesn't play tennis. He harps on lack of wrist action but tennis has little wrist action.

Gamers have some weird notion that all racket sports have the same mechanics (table tennis, tennis, racquetball, etc.). they do not. In tennis, there is very little wrist action except for the serve and maybe the slice. Top spin and other groundstrokes come more from your legs and torso for power and your arm motion and grip for type of stroke. A strong western grip for heavy topspin. A more continental grip for flatter shots. For example, if you finish with your stroke so that your arm is point straight forward, it'll be a straight flat shot.

In fact, if you go into a tennis class and play with a loose wrist, they'll laugh at you. And yet gamers somehow talk about how important it is to have wrist action. I guess it's because gamers grew up playing Wii tennis games and watching tennis on TV rather than playing on the court.

In Wii Tennis, you basically have to cheat to win and flicking your wrists as fast as possible. This isn't tennis. You don't flick your wrist in tennis. This is how the term waggle was invented. You don't do correct motions in Wii games if you want to win. You figure out the game mechanics and take advantage of the limitations of the controls.

Yeah, try playing real life tennis without ever turning your body at all and just face straight on all the time, you can move you wrist as much as you want but you're not going to be able to put the ball where you want! That's unfortunately how Virtua Tennis 4 (in Motion Play mode) is as the only way to effect the left & right direction is using timing like it says in the instructions, which is ridiculous. I must have just had some coincidental shots during the occasions I thought my body position was affecting the left/right direction of the ball as I tested it out more and it definitely seems like the instruction manual is right. (Which makes sense as they are the instructions afterall, lol!) Also I got tossing the ball with my left hand to work, I think it wasn't working before due to the tilt of my Kinect because for some reason my Kinect was tilting down much too far. (I think it might have been because of me sitting down the other day while MJE was still running so Kinect tilted down to track me sitting down then I turned off the Xbox and it stayed tilting down.) But there's a MAJOR problem with serving, it's automatic! Dodgy You can throw the ball then stay completely still with your arms down by your side and your player still serves prefectly, lol! I don't know whether you can affect the serve further, like speed and position, if you "act out" the serve yourself as well during serving but it didn't look like it. Also I can't seem to pull off lobs for some reason. Undecided (At least not intentionally.)

It's such a shame Sega just did a quick port of the PS3/Move version rather than take full advantage (or even just the basic advantage of body position) of Kinect as VT4's Motion Play mode would have been so much better if they did. Sad (I've actually seen comments from PS3 owners complaining that VT4 on the PS3 was dumbed down because of Kinect. WRONG! The game was virtually finished when the Xbox 360/Kinect version was announced so at worst the PS3 version might have been delayed because of that but as far as I know no videogame journalists have claimed that the finished version of of the PS3 version of VT4 is any different to early versions they played last year, long before it went multiplatform, other than it being more polished now.) In fact I've heard that you can just play the Move version sitting down flicking the controller, like you said about Wii tennis. But like I've said before, I guess we should be happy that we got the game at all since it was originally announced as a PS3 exclusive, plus even if the Motion Play mode ends up too disappointing it's still a great joypad game from what I've heard. (I haven't got around to playing with a joypad yet as I've been too exhausted!)

I can not wait to see the day when companies decided to put MS kInect first rather than the other way around. I getting quite sick when they port games over from one console to the other. They are cheating Kinect full potential. Well now...wait. Why didn't MS step in an made Top Spin an exclusive for Kinect? (Ok I am done ranting..I think. Smile )

Thank for these reviews....keep posting if you get into the game more and more now that you have it. I have to wait until May 10th to get a copy. Sad

Oh..does this game have online play? Have you tried that out yet? And don't do too much...you health is much more important.

Thanks.

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04-30-2011, 01:03 AM
Post: #53
RE: VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
(04-29-2011 11:35 PM)meistroracer Wrote:  
(04-29-2011 08:46 PM)Corellianrogue Wrote:  
(04-29-2011 07:36 PM)dirtyvu Wrote:  I just read the Eurogamer review and it's quite clear the reviewer is a gamer who doesn't play tennis. He harps on lack of wrist action but tennis has little wrist action.

Gamers have some weird notion that all racket sports have the same mechanics (table tennis, tennis, racquetball, etc.). they do not. In tennis, there is very little wrist action except for the serve and maybe the slice. Top spin and other groundstrokes come more from your legs and torso for power and your arm motion and grip for type of stroke. A strong western grip for heavy topspin. A more continental grip for flatter shots. For example, if you finish with your stroke so that your arm is point straight forward, it'll be a straight flat shot.

In fact, if you go into a tennis class and play with a loose wrist, they'll laugh at you. And yet gamers somehow talk about how important it is to have wrist action. I guess it's because gamers grew up playing Wii tennis games and watching tennis on TV rather than playing on the court.

In Wii Tennis, you basically have to cheat to win and flicking your wrists as fast as possible. This isn't tennis. You don't flick your wrist in tennis. This is how the term waggle was invented. You don't do correct motions in Wii games if you want to win. You figure out the game mechanics and take advantage of the limitations of the controls.

Yeah, try playing real life tennis without ever turning your body at all and just face straight on all the time, you can move you wrist as much as you want but you're not going to be able to put the ball where you want! That's unfortunately how Virtua Tennis 4 (in Motion Play mode) is as the only way to effect the left & right direction is using timing like it says in the instructions, which is ridiculous. I must have just had some coincidental shots during the occasions I thought my body position was affecting the left/right direction of the ball as I tested it out more and it definitely seems like the instruction manual is right. (Which makes sense as they are the instructions afterall, lol!) Also I got tossing the ball with my left hand to work, I think it wasn't working before due to the tilt of my Kinect because for some reason my Kinect was tilting down much too far. (I think it might have been because of me sitting down the other day while MJE was still running so Kinect tilted down to track me sitting down then I turned off the Xbox and it stayed tilting down.) But there's a MAJOR problem with serving, it's automatic! Dodgy You can throw the ball then stay completely still with your arms down by your side and your player still serves prefectly, lol! I don't know whether you can affect the serve further, like speed and position, if you "act out" the serve yourself as well during serving but it didn't look like it. Also I can't seem to pull off lobs for some reason. Undecided (At least not intentionally.)

It's such a shame Sega just did a quick port of the PS3/Move version rather than take full advantage (or even just the basic advantage of body position) of Kinect as VT4's Motion Play mode would have been so much better if they did. Sad (I've actually seen comments from PS3 owners complaining that VT4 on the PS3 was dumbed down because of Kinect. WRONG! The game was virtually finished when the Xbox 360/Kinect version was announced so at worst the PS3 version might have been delayed because of that but as far as I know no videogame journalists have claimed that the finished version of of the PS3 version of VT4 is any different to early versions they played last year, long before it went multiplatform, other than it being more polished now.) In fact I've heard that you can just play the Move version sitting down flicking the controller, like you said about Wii tennis. But like I've said before, I guess we should be happy that we got the game at all since it was originally announced as a PS3 exclusive, plus even if the Motion Play mode ends up too disappointing it's still a great joypad game from what I've heard. (I haven't got around to playing with a joypad yet as I've been too exhausted!)

I can not wait to see the day when companies decided to put MS kInect first rather than the other way around. I getting quite sick when they port games over from one console to the other. They are cheating Kinect full potential. Well now...wait. Why didn't MS step in an made Top Spin an exclusive for Kinect? (Ok I am done ranting..I think. Smile )

Thank for these reviews....keep posting if you get into the game more and more now that you have it. I have to wait until May 10th to get a copy. Sad

Oh..does this game have online play? Have you tried that out yet? And don't do too much...you health is much more important.

Thanks.

I haven't tried out online multiplayer (I don't play online a lot since I don't get to play games as much as I'd like so I'm usually only playing the main single-player parts of games) but it says it has it. I'm not sure if you can play with Kinect online or whether it's restricted to joypad only. I wouldn't be too disappointed about Top Spin 4 not using Kinect as apparently that was crap with the Move too! (I do know that all they did was map the regular joypad moves to about 6 or 8 directions of the Move wand. Read this review: http://www.movemodo.com/reviews/2011/03/top_spin_4_ps3 ) By the way, in case you didn't know, Top Spin hasn't been made by Microsoft since the original Xbox. They sold the franchise to 2K Sports. (If you did think it was still made by Microsoft you must have been totally confused why it was not only released on the PS3 but using the Move too, lol!)

I've been looking online to see if I can find the instructions to the PS3 version of VT4's Move controls (haven't found them yet) to see for myself whether what I've read is true because if it is then the Move version is actually worse than the Kinect version! Because what I've heard is that the Move wand's glowing ball isn't activated in VT4 so there's no tracking of the wand's depth or position in 3D space, just detection of the motion and the angle of the wand itself which sounds like it's in one fixed spot on screen. (Well, the racquet probably still moves around the screen but maybe automatically to follow the ball or something.) If this is true then the Kinect version is better as you can move the racquet around the screen in front of you. Plus the strength of the shots in the game in the Kinect version definitely seem to relate to how fast you make the stroke in real life, but if it's true that you can just flick the Move wand around while sitting down then obviously that's not as realistic as the Kinect version.

A couple of good things about the game though is that I didn't notice any lag (thank God! Since I'm sure it would be to hard to even hit the ball if there was lag as it's very fast-paced) and also that when the player hits the ball it actually switches to a canned animation (making your shots look totally professional Big Grin) but the transition is so smooth. I was worried it was going to be clunky as I'd noticed in previous videos that it switched to a canned animation, but it's not clunky at all and so fast and smooth that it's as if you performed the animation yourself! Also the switching between 3rd person and 1st person wasn't disorientating to me at all, I know people were worried about that.

I'm sure we're going to see games made for the Kinect first now that it's a big success. I think maybe some companies took a "wait and see" approach as they weren't sure how well it was going to sell, plus of course it's much easier to implement Move since that's a physical controller that movement can easily be mapped to whereas Kinect takes more programming, but then there's much more it can do of course. Plus there are all those core Kinect exclusives from last year's TGS (Tokyo Game Show) due out this year that haven't been released yet.
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04-30-2011, 01:36 AM
Post: #54
RE: VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
Awesome sum up Corellianrogue! Thanks

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04-30-2011, 01:54 AM
Post: #55
Information RE: VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
(04-30-2011 01:36 AM)wazza Wrote:  Awesome sum up Corellianrogue! Thanks

You're welcome. Smile I completely forgot another BIG positive. You don't need to be over 6ft from the Kinect to play VT4! Big Grin You can be like 4ft away. I was going to say as close as you like but then obviously you need a few feet between you and Kinect so that you can step forward to run to the net and you don't want to be too close when you step forward or you'd end up hitting the TV and/or Kinect when you try to hit the ball, lol! No doubt the reason you can be much closer is because the game only tracks your arms/hands (and torso, or maybe head even, to track when you're moving forward to the net) so other games like Child Of Eden should be like that too and it'll only be full body tracking games that need you to be 6ft+ away from Kinect.
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04-30-2011, 11:19 PM
Post: #56
RE: VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
What i hated the most in Sports' Table Tennis is:
1. one of the most difficult things to do in the game was to fail a shot.
2. it doesnt matter how fast you hit, the ball speed is only affected by the point duration (more hits, more speed)

I played move table tennis in an electronics store, and i was impressed by the accuraccy it had, you controlled the speed, the height, the rotation of the "raquet".

I just wish Microsoft do what they should and add a controller with gyroscope and buttons like the move. It would be the best gaming device out there, we would have full body recognition, plus wrist rotation and buttons to play a lot of games like fps that require those things.

PS: As you said, tennis doesnt require much wrist rotation, but wrist rotation recognition, it will be hard for kinect to difference a lob from a top spin shot.
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04-30-2011, 11:41 PM (This post was last modified: 04-30-2011 11:43 PM by dirtyvu.)
Post: #57
RE: VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
(04-30-2011 11:19 PM)soylomass Wrote:  PS: As you said, tennis doesnt require much wrist rotation, but wrist rotation recognition, it will be hard for kinect to difference a lob from a top spin shot.

This is entirely wrong. A lob has zero wrist action. As you swing, you are quickly raising your arm and letting it follow your racket's momentum. This initiates the top spin.

Top spin is not generated by the wrist. Top spin is generated by the upward motion of the swing as the face of the racket spins the ball as it moves up and forward on the ball. Tennis is not table tennis. Tennis is not racquetball.

For a regular top spin forehand, you are bring the tennis racket forward and through the ball. And if you want direction, you do open face to go to your strong side, across your body to go cross court, or straight to go down the line. Again, almost zero wrist action.

So basically, the only difference between a lob and a forehand is a lob, you do not follow through on your swing. A forehand, you do follow through and go up and over on the ball to direct the shot in.
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05-01-2011, 03:51 AM
Post: #58
Information RE: VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
(04-30-2011 11:19 PM)soylomass Wrote:  What i hated the most in Sports' Table Tennis is:
1. one of the most difficult things to do in the game was to fail a shot.
2. it doesnt matter how fast you hit, the ball speed is only affected by the point duration (more hits, more speed)

Huh? The ball speed is affected by how fast you hit the ball. Watch this short video from Rare where they clearly say that you have to put more energy into your shot to smash:


(04-30-2011 11:19 PM)soylomass Wrote:  I played move table tennis in an electronics store, and i was impressed by the accuraccy it had, you controlled the speed, the height, the rotation of the "raquet".

I just wish Microsoft do what they should and add a controller with gyroscope and buttons like the move. It would be the best gaming device out there, we would have full body recognition, plus wrist rotation and buttons to play a lot of games like fps that require those things.

PS: As you said, tennis doesnt require much wrist rotation, but wrist rotation recognition, it will be hard for kinect to difference a lob from a top spin shot.

It is impressive seeing the rotation and the movement of the paddle in Sports Champions' table tennis however you can't move the player around (except before you serve) whereas obviously you can in Kinect Sports' table tennis. Plus it is (or at least should be) possible to have wrist rotation recognition with Kinect games but it's likely to be either wrist rotation recognition OR full body tracking and not both. Unless of course they do release an extra controller which is possible.

By the way, I've seen the PS3's Move control instructions for Virtua Tennis 4 and they're IDENTICAL to the Kinect controls (so you have to do the stupid different-timing-to-hit-the-ball-left-or-right thing) except that you can't throw the ball up with your other hand when serving in the Move version. So all the fancy wrist rotation recognition seems to have NO EFFECT on actual gameplay. (Other than using the same angles that are also used in the Kinect version.) Also I've been looking at Move videos and it does seem like I could be right about the on-screen racquet in first-person view. Basically to get the idea of the Move version's on-screen racquet hold a real tennis racquet in front of you but ONLY use your wrist to move it around, keep your arm absolutely still. And to get the idea of the Kinect version's on-screen racquet do the same thing except this time keep your wrist absolutely still but you can move your arm around. (Also like I said earlier there is some shaking and the odd glitch now and then with the Kinect version's racquet.)
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05-01-2011, 06:22 AM (This post was last modified: 05-01-2011 06:32 AM by soylomass.)
Post: #59
RE: VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
@dirtyvu I would like to understand all what you say xD, wish you could speak spanish. Anyway, lob and top spin are similar moves (similar in arm moving, different in wrist rotation). and raquet rotation is an importact thing in tennis, if you point the raquet more to the sky, the ball will go higher, that's a fact.

@Corellian I dont know if you played Sports' Table Tennis, but if you did, you will understand what i said.
It doesnt matter how fast you hit the ball, it's speed has a limit (which increases as the point time advances), it's almost impossible that the ball goes out of the court because you hit too strong.

Im not talking about making a smash... Also, in the video, they doesn't show the point since the serve, if you see a point from the start, you will see that it starts slow, and the speed grows as the time advances. (I don't need to watch any video, i own kinect and kinect sports)

In move's one, if you hit too fast, the ball goes out of the court, just like in a real table tennis match, and you can do almost everything you can do in a real match, like (i dont know how to say this in english) make the ball turn to the sides in air (which requires wrist rotation), while in kinect you are limited to only top spin and slice, that just require arm moving.

Anyway, we all know the Kinect limits, some people try to ignore them to feel better, some of us recognize them and accept that the only way to make kinect the best and most accurate choose is to add a controller with gyroscope and buttons. It's impossible to make a true table tennis game without a controller with rotation recognition, it's impossible to make a good fps without buttons, and many games that require accuracy will be much limited without them.

PS: @Corellian, you said "So all the fancy wrist rotation recognition seems to have NO EFFECT on actual gameplay.". The fact that the developers dont make good use of wrist rotation, doesnt mean that it is an unneeded feature. It is like saying that the city oriented cars should not be made to allow up to 240KM/h because in the city the speed limit is much below.
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05-01-2011, 12:41 PM
Post: #60
RE: VIRTUA TENNIS 4 KINECT!!!
enjoyed VT3 so interested in seeing what this is like with kinect
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